Rubeus or Cauda Draconis in the Ascendant

[Frater Yechidah]

Serpent symbolism is double in nature, and sometimes contraditory. I believe there is a Hermetic notion of a celestial dragon, like in Chinese mythology, which is positive. There is the celestial dragon TLI of the Sepher Yetzirah, which probably relates to the Zodiac. There is also the dragon formula of the G.D. as related to the Zodiac and Tarot. I'm just speculating (but trying to understand these matters) but perhaps the tail of the dragon (tinted by Mars) refers to the Red Dragon on the floor, while the head of the dragon The Celestial one?

Yes, you are right in that there are teachings in and outside the GD that show the serpent as good and evil (I am reminded of the Gnostic view of the Serpent in the Garden of Eden as being a positive figure).

Because it is connected to the Scorpion, Scorpio, the sex drive. Also the Mars force, which governs the sex drive. I really recommend a reading of Paul Foster Case in this instance. The sex drive is closely related to the kundalini, and in my firm opinion, the kundalini definitely is related to the Red Dragon on the floor of the Vault, and Eden Diagrams of the 3=8 and 4=7.

That's not what I asked. I asked why you mentioned the eagle head symbol for Scorpio to support your link between it and the serpent symbolism of Cauda Draconis. Yes, Scorpio is related to the sexual drive and Martial energy, etc., but what has this to do with the eagle head symbol and the depiction of the serpent? You said that "the scorpion and serpent (hence dragon) symbols are interlinked in the Sign of Scorpio, a philosophy which is layed out in the 13th Key of the Tarot, "Death" Why do you think one uses the Head of an Eagle and not of Scorpio when tracing the Kerubic Sign of Water?" I'm trying to understand why you asked about the eagle head here in relation to the link between scorpion and the serpent.

Divination is also a magical act with definite intentions. The difference is that it is supposed to make the magician clairvoyantly aware of the suble currents and interconnections of "fate" and "cicumstances". I hold that destroying a figure because of Cauda and Rubeus in the 1st House is a security measure, in a similar manner that you test your visions in skrying using the Hebrew lettes. G.D. uses security measures. That is a sound formula. Not superstition.

Divination is a magical act, yes, but is tearing up a reading because of these two figures a magical act? What does that accomplish? Is it intended for anything? What is its purpose? You compared the tearing up of the reading to the stamping down of the Evil Persona by the Hierophant - the latter has a definite purpose that was clearly outlined in GD material; the former is a simple warning with no explanation. Thus, if nothing else, it appears like superstition. I am open to being wrong on the matter, however.

I do understand your comment about security measures, and that does make a lot of sense. Tearing up a geomantic reading is not quite the same thing as testing your visions with the Hebrew letters though. Perhaps the tearing up of the reading is a security measure, but it's certainly not as sound a formula as testing with the Hebrew letters.

But related to a Geomantic reading, as the serpent may appear in the Hall and also in the reading. In the hall you just stamp him out, but a reading is ruined as the Geomantic symbols has already been generated. They are more static, as a ritual is dynamic. In a ritual you live the force, in divination you read it. Still the same forces appear, but in different ways,hence different methods to deal with them.

Let's accept for a moment the parallel you suggest above between the stamping down of the Evil Persona and the ruinous position of these geomantic figures in a chart. Does the Evil Persona rear its head during a geomantic working? I suppose it's a possibility that the lower elements of the magician could try to disrupt the reading and give an erroneous viewpoint. If they were causing the rest of the reading to be inaccurate, however, then why is the position of these figures in the First House considered accurate?

Sorry, but I'm lost here. In Tarot you don't ignore cards because they are unfavourable. The safty device regards the significator of the querent, i.e. his or her Self. If that one doesn't show up in the stack, something went wrong in the dealing of the cards (or whatever). Hence the first house is used in Geomancy, relating to the self (which btw doesn't have anything to do with egoism; I don't know where you got that from). I can see a similar pattern here between the mode of Opening of the Key and Geomantic divination.

Apologies for any confusion; I'll try to explain this better. My query about the 10 of Swords is an example of what this would be like if we applied a similar system to the Tarot (i.e. cancelling a reading because a certain figure/card came out in a certain place). Cards like the 10 of Swords are not very positive, and neither are figures like Rubeus and Cauda Draconis. That doesn't mean their presence means we should discard our reading. Can these negative symbols not tell us something in our divination (other than "quick, tear up the reading!").

You say you don't know where I got a relation to egoism from. I don't know where you got that either, as I never once mentioned that word or anything similar to it in this thread. You are the first person to mention it (do a quick Ctrl + F to search for the word). What I did say, which has nothing to do with egoism, is the following: "Is it okay for these supposedly Qlippothic forces to fall into the house governing your relationship with your partner or your child or your job, providing it doesn't fall in the house representing you? Does that not seem a bit contradictory, but above all, selfish?" So why are these signs only ominous in the house of the querent and not, for example, in the Seventh House, which governs the relationship with a partner? Why are we supposed to be worried about Qlippothic forces in the house of the querent and not in the house that governs our children? Do you see my point?

LVX,
Dean.

[Sincerus Renatus]

I asked why you mentioned the eagle head symbol for Scorpio to support your link between it and the serpent symbolism of Cauda Draconis.

We are learnt to trace the Eagle symbol because it relates to sublimated, hence exalted and redeemed, aspects of the Scorpio Force. Tracing the sign of Scorpio would only augument the "negative" and "disruptive" residing in the Water (Tiamat, Leviathan, etc.). With all that I just wanted hint towards the overall negative symbology associated with Scorpio in the G.D. paradigm.

Divination is a magical act, yes, but is tearing up a reading because of these two figures a magical act? What does that accomplish? Is it intended for anything? What is its purpose?

Well basically, if one views a geomantic divination as useless because of this safty sign, then one should just tear the paper up; it's of no use. On a magical level, one may regard this as a sign of the more disruptive forces being invoked by the Geomancer when he invoked the Planetary Spirit. Tearing the sheet up may be connected to a banishing act, compareble to stomping on the foor.

If they were causing the rest of the reading to be inaccurate, however, then why is the position of these figures in the First House considered accurate?

Like I said, as well as the significator (being comparable to the self of the querent) is used as a means of a safty guard agains faulty readings, the first house may also be used out of the same reason, i.e. the self of the querent, as the first house indicates the self.

You say you don't know where I got a relation to egoism from. I don't know where you got that either, as I never once mentioned that word or anything similar to it in this thread.

Sorry about that. I rendered being "selfish" as being "egoistic". Remember, English isn't my first language. In the Swedish lingo these terms are synonymously used.

"Is it okay for these supposedly Qlippothic forces to fall into the house governing your relationship with your partner or your child or your job, providing it doesn't fall in the house representing you? Does that not seem a bit contradictory, but above all, selfish?"

Please read above about the link I make between the 1st House and the Significator.

So why are these signs only ominous in the house of the querent and not, for example, in the Seventh House, which governs the relationship with a partner? Why are we supposed to be worried about Qlippothic forces in the house of the querent and not in the house that governs our children? Do you see my point?

Of course. But in divination a reading always revolves around the querent. I suppose it is common divinatory practice and shouldn't be attached to any moral values, as "selfishness" vs. "solidarity", etc.

In Licht, Leben und Liebe
S.R.

[Ged]

The above is a superstition contained in the Geomancy lecture by Mathers. What do you think about it? Do you employ it? If so, why, and if not, why?

In all the years I've employed geomancy I really can't recall obtaining that result, so I'm not sure how I'd react if I did. Mathers' source was Book 2 of John Heydon's Theomagia, or the Temple of Wisdome (1664). Heydon's recommendations are as follows (spelling as original):

p.8
'When you find [Rubeus] in the first house it signifies Rogues, Whores, Theeves, Robbers, Murderers, and deceitful persons, and for all the demands in this house the Figure is ill, because it is a Figure of [Bartzabel] and Barchiel in the eighth house, and of the Element of the water, and therefore it is a deadly figure, and not fit to be judged.'
p. 94
'If you find Rubeus in the first house, I will say no other thing but that which before I have told you, that following the opinion of all the Doctors in this science, be they Caldeans, Indians, Hebrews, Arabics, Egyptians, or Persians, when this Figure is found in this place, it ought not to be judged, the which thing I have found true by long experience, wherefore at this time I shall say no other thing, but that she is ill in all the houses but in the sixth.'

pp.9-10
'When ye find this Figure called Cauda Draconis, in the first house, it always produceth much mischief and trouble, perplexity both of body and mind, continual dolor, sorrow, loss and tribulations; scandals and calumnies attend the Native, it vitiates his fare, many times is dangerous to the eyes, and imports but short life. Some old Writers would not this or Rubeus should be judged in this house, but I am of the opinion that the judgement herein should not be delayed; for what cause soever the demand was asked, and the figure made, it signifieth illness and damage for all things that may be demanded, so that it is good for nothing but for ruines and burning of Countries by Wars and Treasons, by reason that it is a figure of Zazel and Bartzabel, and the Ideas Barchiel and Hanael, in the sixth, eighth, and twelfth houses, and of the Element of Fire, and a very ill figure.'
96
'If this figure Cauda Draconis be found in the first house then the Figure should not be judged, but it must be broken and an other made one hour after that: but if from the second house she go into any other, ye may there judge it, saving in the fourth, where there is no certain judgement to be given, for the malice of the said Figure, and therefore at this time I will say no more.'

Ged.