Thoughts seem to affect things unintintionally?

[BrAugustine]

btw not to suggest that you did something wicked -- i'm a guy too

[non sum qualis eram]

Likewise NSQE, I don't believe that Will and desire are one an the same but that they can under certain circumstances behave in a similar fashion. Perhaps it has something to do with the psychology being easier to understand? I'll elabourate more; most of us have a thousand and one fantasies a day (they say more of a certain genre if you're a man! ) and in some ways we tend to access or allow ourselves to access the fantasy sooner than we would do the magical manifestation of something which a lot of people spend developing their understanding of the magic in motion.

Thank you Frater A.N.V.

I guess I was thinking of the Will as putting the magic in motion. In one of the flying rolls (or maybe it was somewhere else) I thought there was something about focusing your desire for a realized effect that sounded a lot like Will.
I see a difference, now, between a fantasy desire from the emotional 'desire' in magical working (Invocation, for example).
And then there is the difference in Will (as in to Dare, to Know, to Will, to be Silent) as the magical Will, and the Will as the True Will (in the Thelemic sense). or is there?...

[non sum qualis eram]

A little joke on the topic: "Desire" Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French desirer, from Latin desiderare, from de- + sider-, sidus heavenly body

Ah, yes -- "sideral" means "of the stars" (used technically in astronomy). "De" implies descent -- as in "Rorate cœli desuper et nubes pluant justum" (Roman rite, Introit, 4th Sunday of Advent). "Descended from the starry realm" suggests projection of Woman (Hail Sophia!) onto woman. Projection (mathematically) implies loss of information: Woman contains woman in potential, among other things. Chivalry is the reverse projection process (woman onto Woman). The irony is that information loss happens in both directions (Charles Williams' "Letters to Lalage"): projecting a specific woman onto Woman hides her unique personality. This is the trouble with fantasy: the woman in question, projected onto an idea, becomes object and then (in the worst case) succubus -- empty and vampiric because the human personality is lost.

An enlightened take on Jungs' Anima/Animus? It all seems familiar to me in that sense.

[BrAugustine]

A little joke on the topic: "Desire" Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French desirer, from Latin desiderare, from de- + sider-, sidus heavenly body

Ah, yes -- "sideral" means "of the stars" (used technically in astronomy). "De" implies descent -- as in "Rorate cœli desuper et nubes pluant justum" (Roman rite, Introit, 4th Sunday of Advent). "Descended from the starry realm" suggests projection of Woman (Hail Sophia!) onto woman. Projection (mathematically) implies loss of information: Woman contains woman in potential, among other things. Chivalry is the reverse projection process (woman onto Woman). The irony is that information loss happens in both directions (Charles Williams' "Letters to Lalage"): projecting a specific woman onto Woman hides her unique personality. This is the trouble with fantasy: the woman in question, projected onto an idea, becomes object and then (in the worst case) succubus -- empty and vampiric because the human personality is lost.

An enlightened take on Jungs' Anima/Animus? It all seems familiar to me in that sense.

*nods* i understand the Anima as referring to two separate but related ideas:

1. The feminine personality in the man (see William Gray's discussion of Hod in "Ladder of Lights")
2. The man's internal image or concept of woman

The above discussion relates to #2. When i get some time, i'd like to post a diagram i've been working on, that shows Jung's Anima figures (Eve, Helen, Mary, and Sophia) as labels for arrows on a process diagram between "Woman" (abstract and impersonal) and "woman" (concrete and personal).

[non sum qualis eram]

Thank you frater. I look forward to seeing your diagram.

ETA: Sorry about going off-topic Ace of Spades.
The diagram and Anima discussion continues here: http://www.goldendawnforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1358.